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Message |
    
Jeff Byrdy
Site sponsor
Username: byrdman
Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 11:10 pm: |
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Being the frugal (NOT CHEAP!) person that I am, I just couldn't see paying $39 for a Honda OEM air filter.
The Fram CA351 one does fit with a bit of minor modification.
I added a "ring" of 1/4" I.D. fuel line to the top of it and it fits perfectly.
Here are a few pictures.
http://photos.imageevent.com/byrdman/motorcyclepictures/st1100/websize/DSC02207. JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/byrdman/motorcyclepictures/st1100/websize/DSC02208. JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/byrdman/motorcyclepictures/st1100/websize/DSC02205. JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/byrdman/motorcyclepictures/st1100/websize/DSC02204. JPG |
Jason S
Member
Username: number9
Post Number: 223
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:33 am: |
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Did you glue the fuel line down with silicone or something? Good idea, I just bought the Honda filter for $45 at local stealer. Is there any other brand filter that matches/crosses to the Fram - I am not a fan of Fram. |
Dennis Martin
Site sponsor
Username: dennism
Post Number: 373
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:46 am: |
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Just go and look up the crossing list for your favorite filter brand. The CA351 is a common air filter used on Ford v8 trucks, the F150 and the F250 at least. |
Keith Rosendahl
Intermediate Member
Username: keith_r
Post Number: 342
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:13 am: |
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Choose wisely, I have tried others brands. most gave me problems with higher altitudes. The Fram has always worked well in my bike.
Jeff, GREAT! idea using the 1/4" fuel line. Could be used over again when it time for another filter change. I've been using foam tape and tossing it out and installing new with a fresh filter. |
Londride
New member
Username: londride
Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:26 am: |
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What do you guys think about using the K&N filter? I have been using one on my Aero for the last 30,000 miles. Any problems in using one on an ST1100?
http://www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm |
Keith Broughton
Member
Username: keithb
Post Number: 77
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 11:35 am: |
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Londride..check out this post.There is a lot of interesting info here!http://www.my-mc.com/messages/1/51262.html?1107300332 |
Stephen Scovel
Site sponsor
Username: 2slow
Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 01:47 pm: |
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If you want a used K&N you can have mine for postage. Back in the olden days when a lot of OEM filters were oiled foam the K&N filtered as well as anything. Today I would not want to compromise valve and ring life by eating excess dust. |
Jim Wolfe
Junior Member
Username: jim_w
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 01:54 pm: |
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I have a used K&N if anyone wold like it. I'll never use it but I don't know why I'm storing it.
If anyone wants it for postage let me know. |
Londride
New member
Username: londride
Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 06:31 pm: |
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Stephen Scovel,
I would like the K&N. Please let me know where to send payment. I have a PayPal account if that would be more convenient for you.
Thanks! |
Craig Severson
Site sponsor
Username: craig_severson
Post Number: 3230
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 06:54 pm: |
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There are almost as many opinions about K&N filters....as there are about types of oil to use in bikes. Very little middle ground to the argument.
The only known facts that I'm aware of regarding the K&N are:
* it will not filter as well as an OEM paper filter (meaning that more particulate material will pass).
* the additional claimed "flow" will not help the ST run stronger nor more efficiently, as the OEM filter is not the gating factor.
But I'm using a K&N filter in my bike. Crazy, huh?
I run one out of sheer economics. I like being able to wash it off and re-use it. It does trap some crud, better than no filter at all. Since I don't live nor ride in a dusty environment, I figure that the odds of me killing this engine from dirt before I either wreck it or sell it are infinitessimal. |
Mike Miller
Site sponsor
Username: miller205
Post Number: 42
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 07:35 pm: |
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As someone said to me lately, "I guess the real question is - does it matter?" Even if the K&N passes along some additional particulate, will that addition, at that micron level, given regular oil & filter changes, cause any significant additional wear in the engine? I doubt it. |
Jeff Byrdy
Site sponsor
Username: byrdman
Post Number: 285
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 08:24 pm: |
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Wear is wear! Like Craig said, the additional wear will probably never have to be dealt with but any additional wear will still accumulate.
Oil and filter changes will not help to limit this wear due to "dirty" intake air. |
Wallace Shults
Intermediate Member
Username: n2brk
Post Number: 455
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 08:48 pm: |
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>* the additional claimed "flow" will not help the >ST run stronger nor more efficiently, as the OEM >filter is not the gating factor.
Speaking of flow, the KN filter comes with a seperate pre-filter ring to apply around the outside of the filter. KN sez that if you don't use this, rejetting will be needed.
Just FYI for the guys selling/buying used ones that don't want to lean their bikes out or adjust the carbs ;-)
Wal |
Jeff Byrdy
Site sponsor
Username: byrdman
Post Number: 286
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:34 pm: |
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Hey Wal,
While doing my forks this weekend, I decided to solid mount the bars to the top triple tree.
I used a few washers to "ground" the rubber isolators. When Chicago comes out of it's deep freeze, I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the advice. |
John Nagle
Member
Username: saaz
Post Number: 165
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:34 pm: |
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I put put a K&N in when I got the ST (it was less than half price at a sale). Did not use the foam ring, bike runs fine. No positive or negative effects that I can tell, apart from a slight increase in intake noise, but the bike is so quiet it probably needs something! The bike is running better than when I got it, with great fuel economy (20+ kpl on trips, 18kpl around town), but this is probably due to giving it a good run, changing the plugs, carb synch and not overfilling the oil.
Bottom line..the K&N will not give performance on the ST, although it seems to on the ST13 from dyno runs I have seen. Unusually, Honda gave the ST11 an intake tract and airbox that supplies more then the motor can use...perhaps they were going to increase the power one day, but never got around to it!
I also have run K&N oval pods on my 78 GS1000 Suzuki for over 20 years. Only ever cleaned them once or twice. Always covered in dirt and grime as I go on gravel roads every now and then. Compression etc as good as when I put the filters on. That is only over about 130,000kms, so rather a short time for an STs life  |
Wallace Shults
Intermediate Member
Username: n2brk
Post Number: 456
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:40 am: |
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Cool Jeff :-) I didn't think about that. It would have been easier then the route I took with totally removing those pressed in metal outer cones and rubber centers... what a bitch that was!!
John - speaking of the intake tract, has anyone cut the runners down a little? I am *SO* tempted to trim them each an inch to tune the intake for a better charge in the higher RPM's. I don't mind sacrificing a little low end for it. I am trying to decide on it. I don't see any history about doing it??? Someone must have tried it...no?
Wal |
Robert Hunter
Site sponsor
Username: cfgjy
Post Number: 265
Registered: 06-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 01:16 am: |
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I run a K & N because the bike came with it. You want to lok at the Marine engines that run much harder than street bikes & cost much more than street bikes; they have little or no filtration. Aviation the same only more expensive & worked harder. I know there is less dust at sea & altitude but unless you ride dirt there isn't a lot of dust where we ride either. No doubt a good paper filter will filter better but for most of us most of the time I Believe the K & N should be adequet. Carpe Diem robert |
Rob Clendening
Member
Username: stconvert
Post Number: 133
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 01:21 am: |
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Wal,
I'd get a set of used runners to tinker with, especially if you're talking about the ram-horn shaped extensions inside the air-box. I'll relate two personal experiences;
First from the flow bench - The bell shaped entrance at the opening of each runner is EXTREMELY important. Messing with that shape will gaurantee a decrease in flow, been there, done that, on many carbs and runners for other small engines on the bench. So... if you're tempted to shorten them you MUST maintain that entrance shape (if I'm not mistaken they're molded on the bottom so trimming that end would be difficult, maybe a hunk out of the middle?).
Second, from various motors - CV carbs have a tendency to be sensitive to changes in the intake tract AHEAD of the carb. Was working on a small Kaw. motor last week with a Mikuni on it. The owner had not yet supplied the air cleaner element. Couldn't figure why the damn thing wouldn't smooth out at idle (at any setting) when I accidentally passed my hand in front of the open intake snorkle. It suddenly smoothed out! At idle I could hold my hand 3/4 of an inch in front of the snorkle (causing no restriction at all) and it made all the difference in the world. The take home message? If you mess with the intake tract length much you may have to experiment with the air bleeds to get it to run decent (I have no clue where you'd get different air bleed jets for an ST). |
Wallace Shults
Intermediate Member
Username: n2brk
Post Number: 457
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 03:06 am: |
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that's exactly what I am talking about doing. Leave the tops (and their angled heads) alone, and cutting the middles 1" shorter on each runner.
I have shaved runners on a MPFI manifold, but never on a carbed vehicle. I don't want to change them much though! I know that a little can shift the sweet spot a long way. I would just be looking to boost the top 1,000rpms a little. As it is now, the bike kinda falls on its face up there. I would be willing to sacrifice the killer low range a little for this compromise.
But, I don't know if want to bother with all the time I know I'll spend, haha. BUT!!! I am coming off a high right now from putting in a killer 1st of its kind carb setup on an old VF700C :-)
Hmm...
Wal |
Jeff Byrdy
Site sponsor
Username: byrdman
Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 04:07 am: |
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PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your message is too short. |
John Nagle
Member
Username: saaz
Post Number: 166
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 05:30 am: |
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VF700C?..thats the bike (750 version) that got me liking V4 power delivery..rest of the bike was nothing special, chewed petrol like anything..
Changing the runner length may just move power aroud a bit. The only tuning article I have read on the ST suggests (on the Mike Martin site I think) that changing the airbox restriction (the small inlets) is one key, needing retuning. Intake track length by itself may not do much good. |
Wallace Shults
Intermediate Member
Username: n2brk
Post Number: 458
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:28 pm: |
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I already have a very open airbox, custom ex, and rejetted carbs. :-) |
John Nagle
Member
Username: saaz
Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 09:27 pm: |
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Ah well, then the runner change may do something.... |
Dan Nelson
Junior Member
Username: dan_nelson
Post Number: 34
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:42 am: |
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Hey Jeff...great idea and great photos. But getting back to Jason's question...Did you glue it down? And a question of my own...How are the ends of the hose joined?
I'm definately not spending the bucks for the Honda filter!!! Especially after buying the NGK plugs today...ouch!!!!! |
Jeff Byrdy
Site sponsor
Username: byrdman
Post Number: 289
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 06:18 am: |
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Hey Dan,
I used a black silicone sealer as a glue to seal it to the top of the filter element. I just didn't want it to slide around.
The ends of the hose are joined in two ways. I slid a small section of smaller vacuum hose inside the two ends of the larger hose. I then used some more silicone to fill the joint. After it cured, in she went. |
Keith Broughton
Member
Username: keithb
Post Number: 79
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:04 pm: |
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Very slick Jeff!
Is there any way to glue the "gasket" to the air box or cover so that the filter can be replaced and the gasket stay with the bike? |
Londride
Junior Member
Username: londride
Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 06:54 pm: |
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Please disregard my request for a K&N, after reading the following article I think I will go with a Fram alternative and fuel line.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#AirFilters |
Keith Broughton
Member
Username: keithb
Post Number: 81
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 12:06 pm: |
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Good article Londride!
Considering that my Honda car engines have the filter mounted horizontally and runs at about 80psi, I use the same Honda filter for both the car and the bike.
Here is another interesting articlehttp://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/index.shtml |
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